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Silence in the Library thoughts...
SPDN, feel free to link.
One thing I've learned about Moffat's episodes - they're never straight forward. At all. The viewer needs to be patient as the seemingly unrelated storylines weave themselves together by the end. It can be maddening. I'm reminding myself of that, because as of right now, the cliffhanger seems... off, for lack of a better term. I'm certain that once the other half of the story is connected, I won't feel that way anymore, however.
I adore the concepts in this episode. I realize some of them are nicked from The Time Traveler's Wife, as well as other sources. But then again, most TV show plots are nicked from somewhere else. So that doesn't bother me. The idea of an entire world being built as essentially the futuristic Library of Alexandria? Absolutely brilliant. I want to go!
The dust in the sunbeams being potential killers? Way to bring out the childhood fear of the dark. I'll have you know that my little feline hunter, Noby, is attacking Vashta Narada over by the window right now. He's protecting me as I type. :)
The ghosting effect after death was haunting to me - very tragic how echoes of life get stuck in the technology. Donna's attempt to soothe Miss Evangelista's skeleton as the echoes of her thoughts faded away just made my stomach sink. Beautifully played.
The library existing apparently in the little girl's dreamworld? Brilliant. I have to admit, it strikes me as very Matrix-ey.
River Song is confusing me, but I'm fairly certain that it's simply because there's a lot to be divulged about her. The idea that she knows the Doctor (apparently quite intimately, based on the conversation in the episode), but she's meeting him at a point in his personal timeline that's too far in his past to know her is not a new idea in Who. Jack said in Utopia that he had to wait to meet the Doctor until a moment where their timelines would merge. River Song's meeting here is why it's important to find that merging moment. There are too many things that can go wrong. She knows too much.
And he's aware of that as he eyes the Tardis-covered book that supposedly has his life story in it. The fact that he tries to look, gets irritated when she says it's against the rules - and that the rules are his. Very good. I like the blip in the Doctor's supposed moral superiority.
One thing that I've seen elsewhere in the last day (I think over on DWF) is someone suggesting that River Song found the book somewhere and is using the book for nefarious purposes to get close to the Doctor... and if the Doctor read it, he'd discover the truth.
It's an interesting theory, but I don't buy it. The scene where River is trying to figure out where the Doctor is in his timeline just strikes me as something a bit too personal for that theory (even if it interests me). Her remark about his eyes, and how young his eyes are... I adored it. Do I think the Doctor has found love in the future with River Song? Yes, I do. I'm perfectly OK with it.
I think River Song is going to die in episode 9. Really do. I think it's going to be one of those "curses of time travel" situations that the Doctor, upon meeting her at the first moment in HER timeline, will know ultimately how she dies, and has to carry that knowledge with him throughout their relationship. (perhaps that's why his eyes look so much older when River knows him?) It's a weird mirror that works... when he first meets River Song in his timeline, she knows events in his future. And he does the same when he meets her.
The one thing that's bothering me about this episode is that there simply are too many characters involved, and therefore no one really gets developed. Donna basically gets swallowed into nothingness here... and I'm not just talking literally. The company owner (apparently the accountant got out of prison in Blackpool and is now working in the 51st century), the Daves, the other two people whose names I can't remember. I'm going to have to assume there's something specific happening with each of them next week, but I do think it's too many characters.
I do think the pacing was a bit too slow in this episode, and it does feel disjointed, but I think a big part of that disjoint is just due to the Moffat plotlines being all over the place.
My thoughts? 4 of 5, although it can change depending on the second half and how it works.
Okay... after all that, I desperately need to get my first cup of coffee for the morning.
One thing I've learned about Moffat's episodes - they're never straight forward. At all. The viewer needs to be patient as the seemingly unrelated storylines weave themselves together by the end. It can be maddening. I'm reminding myself of that, because as of right now, the cliffhanger seems... off, for lack of a better term. I'm certain that once the other half of the story is connected, I won't feel that way anymore, however.
I adore the concepts in this episode. I realize some of them are nicked from The Time Traveler's Wife, as well as other sources. But then again, most TV show plots are nicked from somewhere else. So that doesn't bother me. The idea of an entire world being built as essentially the futuristic Library of Alexandria? Absolutely brilliant. I want to go!
The dust in the sunbeams being potential killers? Way to bring out the childhood fear of the dark. I'll have you know that my little feline hunter, Noby, is attacking Vashta Narada over by the window right now. He's protecting me as I type. :)
The ghosting effect after death was haunting to me - very tragic how echoes of life get stuck in the technology. Donna's attempt to soothe Miss Evangelista's skeleton as the echoes of her thoughts faded away just made my stomach sink. Beautifully played.
The library existing apparently in the little girl's dreamworld? Brilliant. I have to admit, it strikes me as very Matrix-ey.
River Song is confusing me, but I'm fairly certain that it's simply because there's a lot to be divulged about her. The idea that she knows the Doctor (apparently quite intimately, based on the conversation in the episode), but she's meeting him at a point in his personal timeline that's too far in his past to know her is not a new idea in Who. Jack said in Utopia that he had to wait to meet the Doctor until a moment where their timelines would merge. River Song's meeting here is why it's important to find that merging moment. There are too many things that can go wrong. She knows too much.
And he's aware of that as he eyes the Tardis-covered book that supposedly has his life story in it. The fact that he tries to look, gets irritated when she says it's against the rules - and that the rules are his. Very good. I like the blip in the Doctor's supposed moral superiority.
One thing that I've seen elsewhere in the last day (I think over on DWF) is someone suggesting that River Song found the book somewhere and is using the book for nefarious purposes to get close to the Doctor... and if the Doctor read it, he'd discover the truth.
It's an interesting theory, but I don't buy it. The scene where River is trying to figure out where the Doctor is in his timeline just strikes me as something a bit too personal for that theory (even if it interests me). Her remark about his eyes, and how young his eyes are... I adored it. Do I think the Doctor has found love in the future with River Song? Yes, I do. I'm perfectly OK with it.
I think River Song is going to die in episode 9. Really do. I think it's going to be one of those "curses of time travel" situations that the Doctor, upon meeting her at the first moment in HER timeline, will know ultimately how she dies, and has to carry that knowledge with him throughout their relationship. (perhaps that's why his eyes look so much older when River knows him?) It's a weird mirror that works... when he first meets River Song in his timeline, she knows events in his future. And he does the same when he meets her.
The one thing that's bothering me about this episode is that there simply are too many characters involved, and therefore no one really gets developed. Donna basically gets swallowed into nothingness here... and I'm not just talking literally. The company owner (apparently the accountant got out of prison in Blackpool and is now working in the 51st century), the Daves, the other two people whose names I can't remember. I'm going to have to assume there's something specific happening with each of them next week, but I do think it's too many characters.
I do think the pacing was a bit too slow in this episode, and it does feel disjointed, but I think a big part of that disjoint is just due to the Moffat plotlines being all over the place.
My thoughts? 4 of 5, although it can change depending on the second half and how it works.
Okay... after all that, I desperately need to get my first cup of coffee for the morning.
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And a truly god one. Manipulative and all that.
She said it: "I lied. I'm ALWAYS lying."
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Although I admit, I scratch my head at your belief she's going to be a baddie. I don't get that vibe from her at all.
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Doctor: Get out.
Donna: Doctor...
Doctor: All of you, turn around, get back in your rocket, and fly away. Tell your grandchildren you can to The Library and lived, they won't believe you.
River: Pop your helmets everyone, we've got breathers.
Annita: How do you know they're not androids?
River: 'cause I've dated androids, they're rubbish.
Strackman: Who is this? You said that we were the only expedition. I paid for exclusives.
River: I lied. I'm always lying. Bound to be others.
Strackman: Evangelista, I want to see the contracts.
River: You came through the north wall, yeah? How much damage?
Doctor: Please just leave. I'm asking you seriously and properly. Hang on. Did you say expedition?
Strackman: My expedition. I funded it.
Doctor: Oh, you're not, are you? Tell me you're not archaeologists?
River: Got a problem with archaeologists?
Doctor: I'm a time traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologists.
River: Ah. Professor River Song, archaeologist.
Once she had herself admit she was a liar, all she said can be taken as a lie.
But I do believe she is a former companion. Maybe even a former lover.
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I'm sorry, but you're taking this to an extreme that I just scratch my head at. She said it to a greedy capitalist who's looking out only for his family's interests. Context is important.
She's lying about there not being other expeditions - she knows there's always a chance for others to be there.
Do you consider the Doctor a liar (and therefore would have to hold to your same standard) since he intentionally lied to her when he told Rose that he sang a song and the Daleks ran away?
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We'll just see next week.
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So you fixate on two sentences and ignore the rest of what River says in the episode, therefore ignoring RTD's advice you're trying to remind me of? Gotcha.
For what it's worth, I *did* listen to the rest of the episode. Carefully.
The rest of what she says, BTW, leads toward her being a future companion (and strongly hinted at lover) of the Doctor, and the two of them bounce in and out of each other's timelines a bit. She has a book detailing their experiences, and knows enough to be careful what she says, in case she's meeting him at earlier times in his personal timeline.
She's disturbed by the revelation that it's Donna Noble that's traveling with the Doctor - it seems she knows what happens to Donna, and it's apparently not good.
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My thoughts exactly! :)
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I don't think liar and baddie always corollate, and I KNOW that Moffat doesn't think that they do. It was Moffat that introduced Capt. Jack, flawed in many ways, but definitely not a baddie. And oh yeah... a liar and a conman. I'm quite happy to think that River might be a Jack-like character, morally flexible by our standards of today, but basically one of the good guys.
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I enjoyed it but found it a little disappointing - which is probably because I have such high expectations for Moffat stories. But I did enjoy it anyway.
The ghosting was quite heart wrenching. Not so much with Proper Dave but definitely with Miss Evangelista.
I hope River Song dies. Not because I don't like the character (I do) but I think it would be brilliant on the whole drama/narrative/blah blah thing.
I really like the whole "fear of the dark" being rational and sensible - there really is something there. This lead nicely into...
I wasn't as freaked out by this episode as I have been about previous Moffat stories. The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances scared the crap out of me. I watched it at some stupid hour of the AM (probably around 3am) and was actually terrified of walking down the hallway to the loo in case some freaky gas mask kid was all creepy at me.
Blink literally gave me nightmares. I woke myself up because, in my dream, I was all "I have to open my eyes or the angels will get me".
Those episodes actually meant I had trouble sleeping.
Silence in the Library hasn't done that yet. But, like I said, I think it's because I have certain unreasonable expectations. It was creepy and the whole shadows/dark thing was uncomfortable making but...
Just because I like repeating myself :) I still enjoyed the episode.
I'm looking forward to Forest of the Dead
I think it may be time that I go to bed.
Stupid sleeping all day because of a stupid migraine making the day all mucked up and meaning I can't sleep now ... stupidness.
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SitL hasn't given me any serious chills either (although it's creepy in that fun, curl up on the couch and giggle sort of way), but that could change of course with the second half. :)
I'm looking forward to next week, too.
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As for me, I just got done watching it, and I'm probably glad about that.
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SitL is creepy, but in a more subtle way, I think. It's individual concepts, not the entire friggin' thing.
It's made me change my whole perspective on Noby's dust-chasing in the sunbeams, however. Far more amusing, now.
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Wow...that's horrible, wonderful, and brilliant all at the same time. I kinda hope that's how it works out. Not b/c I dislike her character, I think her character has real potential. But I really think that would be just a perfect fit for The Doctor's character.
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(it's happy for deep people...)
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Oooooh. I like this theory. There's just enough of an edge to her where she could be a magnificent baddie. Hmm.
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I definitely agree there's quite possibly a Moffat trick in here. As I said in the beginning of my thoughts... Moffat's episodes are never straight forward. And I love that about him.
So if I'm completely blind-sided and going down the wrong path with this, the reveal becomes even more fun for me. :)
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I do too. There's so often a twist of the unexpected, a surprise out of nowhere. But it always makes sense in the end - some sort of sense.
if I'm completely blind-sided and going down the wrong path with this, the reveal becomes even more fun for me.
I agree. And we'll know in five days!
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Ugh... time must go faster. :)
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It does, if you have a TARDIS.
Sadly, there is only one TARDIS still in existence. And it isn't owned by you or me.
Rats.
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That's what I keep thinking. It's too straight forward to say that River's a future companion/lover of the Doctor; it's what the evidence points toward. We'll see. It's interesting.
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That said, it's definitely a possibility for River. And it would add an extra dimension to that rule the Doctor made about not letting himself read the book; perhaps he made the rule partly so he won't know which time will be the last time he sees her.
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You're missing the real reveal
She's got The Doctor's sonic screwdriver and Capt. Jack's sonic disruptor.
Re: You're missing the real reveal
Although yes, I LOLed.